Author Q&A: Marlena Graves, Author of Forty Days on Being a Nine
Today I’m talking with my dear friend Marlena Graves about her latest book. Forty Days on Being a Nine is part of the Enneagram Daily Reflections series from InterVarsity Press, edited by Suzanne Stabile.
If you’re not familiar with the Enneagram, you can find out more here. There’s a test you can take to determine your type, but in my experience, people generally find it easier and more beneficial just to type themselves after reading the type descriptions.
As with most personality typing tools, opinions are all over the place about the Enneagram—there are those who swear by it, and those who consider it worse than useless! I’m not here to make any pronouncements about what you should think of it, but personally, I find it helpful. So does Marlena, which is how she ended up writing about it. Whatever you think of it, I hope you enjoy our conversation!
(For reference, Enneagram Type Nine is the Peacemaker; Type Six, which I also refer to below, is the Loyalist. Type 9w8, or Nine wing Eight, is the Referee.)
Q: In the introduction, you talk about how you first became interested in the Enneagram. What got you interested enough to want to write a book about it?
A: Well, that’s kind of a funny question, not that you knew it would be funny. InterVarsity asked me to write it when they found out I was an Enneagram Nine. I did not pitch it to them. I am not an Enneagram guru, nor do I conduct retreats or seminars on the Enneagram. But I knew enough about myself and about being a Nine that it worked!
Q: I've seen a good deal of debate, especially in Christian circles, over the validity and the purpose of the Enneagram. What would you say to those who argue that it's "pseudo-scientific," or that it makes us ignore our faults and become prideful?
A: I would say I have absolutely no idea about what they mean in saying that it causes us to ignore our faults and become prideful. For me it’s just the opposite: it helps me see my weaknesses, sins, and faults more clearly—as well as my strengths. It’s humiliating. I am a firm believer that we only have the possibility of being healed and set free to be the person God made us to be, and to live according to God’s will, when we tell the truth about ourselves—good and bad. I think it is one more tool in a toolbox to help us understand ourselves better and also a tool that aids us in confession. Also, it functions as an affirmation because it points out our gifts, maybe gifts we can’t see initially. If people don’t like it, they don’t have to use it. I must say I have not been privy to these debates. Although someone else who interviewed me mentioned them. I must not be in these sort of debate circles!
Q: I’m not a Nine myself, but a Six (though I think my dad may be a 9w8). But I found a lot of wisdom in this book that applied to me—for instance, the parts about the desire for comfort and the habit of withdrawing. Do you think that there are certain aspects of being a Nine that everyone can learn from? If so, which aspects in particular come to mind for you?
A: Oh, I am so glad you got something out of it as a Six, Gina! I think two things. I mentioned one a moment ago—the need to tell the truth about ourselves to ourselves, to God, and to trusted others that we may be healed and set free. Another word for it: confession. Each number has things that they struggle with, perhaps more than other numbers. It doesn’t mean other numbers don’t get tripped up by some of the same things, but we each have sins, habits, or faults that so easily entangle us. It is hard for Nines to see these initially. Perhaps that is the same for other numbers? I don’t know.
The second thing would be that Nines are prone to be asleep to themselves, their gifts and abilities. They see them in others but not themselves. So, I would encourage other numbers to own their gifts and use them. We only have one life here on earth. Let us not bury our talents.
Q: Did the process of writing this book teach you more about the Enneagram and about being a Nine? If so, what were some of the things you learned?
A: Yes, it did because I had to do some further research and because I had a conversation with Suzanne Stabile, who was my editor and who knows a lot about the Enneagram. Writing the book and perhaps the fact that I am aging, I am past 40, gave me more confidence to own my gifts, knowledge, and abilities and use them—especially as a Christian woman. I am respectful, but I am not going to apologize for them or cower before people, especially men, that try to bowl me and others over. I know what I am good at. I am a good teacher, preacher, and writer. I know Scripture. I know Church history. I know a bit of theology. I know American history, especially regarding racism and the experiences of people of color. I am going to own that.
Q: You write about how, as a Nine with an Eight wing, you have very different sides to your personality—both the desire to avoid conflict and the desire to speak out. Can you talk more about the tension this creates and how you manage to live with that?
A: I learned that 9w8 is perhaps the most tortured number because Nines are inclined to avoid conflict, but the Eight wing pushes us to name and confront injustice. All the time in my head I have this debate about whether I should say anything or not. I don’t go around looking for fights. I guess, I thought a lot of folks had those incessant debates inside their heads. For me it’s constant. So that can be difficult.
Also, I was affirmed in my gift of discernment. I can usually read people like a book. I don’t say that too often because it can be taken the wrong way. Usually what I discern, and I believe this is a spiritual gift too, I take to God in prayer. “Discernments of spirits” you might call it. It also gives me compassion for people. And sometimes I get ticked off because I see the deceit, etc., and wrongdoing and I don’t always know what to do with that information in the moment. That’s when it is hard to have this gift.
Q: I noticed that you incorporated the title of your (excellent) previous book, The Way Up Is Down, into a passage in this book! I love finding connections like that. How do you think the two books relate to each other?
A: I suppose it’s very Nineish of me to write such a book as The Way Up Is Down. But also, in both, I underscore what I have mentioned here: the need for confession in order for us to be the image of Jesus and be Christ to others.
Q: Do you have any reflections on the Enneagram that you couldn’t fit into this book?
A: I don’t think so. I put all my energy into this one and gave it my best shot in so far as being forthright about my life in God as a Nine.
Q: Did you enjoy writing about the Enneagram, and would you consider doing it again, or are you ready to turn to a new topic?
A: I did enjoy being creative in writing it and truly reflecting on myself. The book itself is sort of a confession, practicing what I preach. However, I was very vulnerable and felt very exposed. I don’t think I will pitch an Enneagram book any time soon, though I might consider writing about it more if some publishing house asks me again.
Book Links:
Forty Days on Being a Nine on Amazon
Forty Days on Being a Nine on Bookshop
Other Links:
I’m back on The Commentarians podcast, this time to talk with Joe Zaragoza about the recent adaptation of Jane Austen’s Emma. You can go here to listen, or find it on iTunes or wherever else you get your podcasts!